doctor, an army major and an ex-nun running for senate seat in illinois, she does have dowage, a delight, that is it for us, good night from new york, we'll see you tomorrow. >> 4 weeks out, president obama well he better look out, welcome i am liz mcdonald in for neil cavuto, mitt romney's debate performance erasing the president's lead according to gallup, republican contendor now five points behind going into next debate, both nominees are dead even. a new pew poll, showing mitt romney, jumping 4 points ahead. to pat goodell, a game changer,

thank you for joining us, what do you make of this idea. do the debates matter or not in chances of someone winning the election? >> they do matter a great dial, this is biggest single debate in helping a candidate since ronald reagan. it was one debate, in carter in '76 they proved people were comfortable to him becoming president. less:liz: said no more presidel debates. >> that is right, until 1976, i remember i went did the research, getting ready for 76 debate, i assume like everyone else legend was that kennedy won

first debate big and moved polls a lot, he had not, he moved them a few points but he got what i call credibility threshold. the reason that romney is doing so well, not vote numbers alone. he did was, you could see it in cbs poll, their panel of uncommitted voters. liz: the guys and ladies in 40 40 40-yard line. >> yes, 30% said that romneycared about people about them at the beginning of the debate, by the end it was 53, almost doubles, he made hi hims, i am not an ogre, and second he managed to say, i have a vision, my ideas here is my program, president was terrible. liz: here is the problem, we're also seeing al gore who blew a

comfortable lead. >> yes, against bush, the debate. with whoever the challenger is, that was two nonincumbents, the reason it was so important for romney is he had been sohammerred. he is an upside down favorable/untapunfavable rating. >> it left the viewers thinking. >> you saw this guy, you said, he is not -- oh my god i should look at him, look, the president still has one commanding poll aspect, which he may be on the verge of throwing away because of their desire to now redemonnize romney. he has an aproppal rating at 50%. liz: but he is attacking eploiting his own record. >> but look, the people of ipoll

last year, voted for obama in 08, they are disappointed. some are undecided. one major thing they liked about him, he promised to unify america, he is dividing it. him coming up there becoming a slash and burn president, he tried to have it with his campaign doing it. liz: can the president say, it could have been worse without me. >> only if challenger fails to say weadock it better, -- say we could do it better, gallup poll shows he won by 52 points, that is biggest margin history, reason, expectations were so low, his need was so great, and he performed so well. liz: time left, now the vice presidential debates coming up. you know joke out there is that, joe biden is stimulus for a

journalist, his train of thoughts makes those local stops, but consensus performing that the vice president could really give paul ryan's run for the money. >> i think if ryan allows this to be a ego massage for himself over how smart i am and medicare. and you know yes, but ryan has to do is do the unexpected. stage was set today, if i was ryan, i would go after biden, the great foreign policy expert on libya, where the president was. liz: where of th the -- where s the president. >> in las vegas raising money the day after. and the other thing, we had this kannard sold about the tape, we know it was a false -- a fake

narrative. if i were ryan, the person i would hurt is biden, i want to see biden try to defend the fact -- when i worked for carter, and hostages were taken we went up, we needed him to go campaign and president said to us, said to me, no, i have to stay here, i can't do on the road what i can do here, this is my job. liz: that was jimmy carter. >> jimmy carter, i fell ashamed, someone should ask what the heck these people are doing. pat thank you. next up fox, neil will be live in kentucky thursday night for vice presidential debate, this will start 8:00 p.m. eastern time. right here on fox business. >> president obama in california, raising big bucks. while california drivers handing

over big bucks at the pump. gas prices, spiking 50-cents a gal an in one week. topping $5 in some areas, and governor jerry brown, taking emergency action, but gas prices barely budging and energy analyst williamiate ma yateman d this is what the white house should be focussing on because the $ 5 gas could be nationwide. >> ironic, the president was in california raising money, come iz rating with the rating given that gas price hike of cause of poor policy decisions. nationwide. liz: we're talking about the refineries that have been shoved off line due to fires and disturbances, could that be alternative to your argument saying maybe this will not go nationwide this is say local

problem? a refinery issue? >> indeed those -- that is the direct cause. the supply disruptions. but the market tight in california for 4 reasons, really, state policies indeed. one the state is highest gas tax of any in the nation. two, refining costs are highest in the nation, due to air quality standards, 3, state has insufficient pipeline connection to western oil and gas market that makes the disruption owono. >> looking at obama administration, policy for policy they are doing the same thing. liz: including cap and trade, governor jerry brown said, i will allowance earlier release of winter blend into the gas supply of california, do you

think that will move the needle? >> 50-cents is far too large, platts reported this morning, media reports that blenders and refiners in california were already making that adjustment. so, no, that is not moving the needle. if i might just add, the four policy that obama administration is pursuing one gh greenhouse gas regulation. that will raise gas prices, two. he will make refining more expensive with epa pending tier 3 su sulfer control, three the keystone pipeline that was rejected. and four the president continues to refuse to allow oil and gas development off of the coast. liz: oil was going down, but it is like a curb your enthusiasm

moment if you are a driver in california. you have been great, sir, thank you so much for your time, we appreciate it. next up, a red alert over china. not what china is planning to do to businesses but what u.s. lawmakers are planning to do to businesses because of china. cowboy libertarian here with a warning. >> and a an for ebay. before copd...

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to events that engage and create buzz... to e-mails that keep loyal customers coming back, our easy-to-use tools will keep you in front of your customers. see what's right for you at constantcontact.com/try. liz: a story that should have everyone on red alert, after chinese cyberattacks american lawmakers on the attack looking to stop american companies from doing business with two of top china tech companies warning they could be a national threat, they can make stuff that can spy on you, but cowboy lyn libertarn

said hold your horses, government should not ban businesses of any kind. even if the intentions are good, he is author of, it's nut cutin time in america. the viewers are concerned about spying from china on our intelligence and our corporations what say you? >> let me say, ni how. i am practicing my mandarin chinese, when our cred kits come calling i will know how to greet them when they arrive in california, an old cowboy names con4ous. coconfusous, said, this old business of retaliating back and fort is not getting us anywhere we tried that in 20 and 30s, that got us in a deeper depression, we tried embargoing oil and metal with japanese that

ended up in pearl harbor. you know itf we need more cyber security, hire more spooks instead of more irs agents for obamacare. we have a lot of kids sitting in a basement that know wha how tok stuff, beef up our security. >> you are worried about retailiation from china against our overseas could operations, our companies have units in china. >> this is a global economy. you know, this ain't like an american public school you get trophy for showing up, americans have to compete. i -- story on television last night talked about sysco. said only one this build these routers, all 4g networks are foreigners, everyone is standing in line getting a a iphone becaase they want a 4 g, they don't care who is building it all they care about is they can facebook anybody they want

wherever they are and get an app, sleep with one hand on your .45 and a eye open. liz: executives taking it to capitol hill, saying, wait, we have been in operation, working with hundreds of millions of customers it world, they are saying, we have not had national security issues with what we do. however our intelligence committee in congress say, wait, china has been accused of spying on corporations here in the united states, which is why they stopped mergers of other u.s. companies with chinese operations, what you to say? >> the word congress and intelligence should never be used to the same sentence that insults the intelligence of the taxpayers, but this is an, how it is handled is the way we'll get out of this, not handled by a bunch of congressmen in an elect year deciding all o all oa sudden -- >> romney is taking a stuffer stance against china.

what do you say? >> is is one thing being tough, but idea you will retaliate and ban something is crazy. they will do something to us. what do we sell over there? agricultural products who is that hurting ? we sell almonds from california to china we need to continue that. liz: president has signed three may yomajor treaties with colom, and panama. it seems that -- by the way two-thirds of house democrats opposed those, i hear what you are saying, i am not sure it will get beyond the intelligence panel. >> well, this is an elect year, they brought is up right before the election, with congress you have to wonder when they put out these things what is the follow-up, congress' record on follow-up is not good here. liz: your book, nut cut.

>> good to see you pat, a lot more home truths in here. >> this country better start deciding it is nut cutting times. >> thank you so much, anyway good to be with you. >> thank you. liz: next up tea partier hopes lightning strike twice, two leaders of the tea party on how they are planning to throw ought the democratic party. >> and the star of hard-core pawn. could force him to shut down his shot. that is up next don't go away. everyone has goals.

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liz: welcome back, the tea party and g.o.p. hoping to see 2010 all over again, senate candidates hammering the exploding debt, and at's health care law, same issues that help take the house back then. two key tea parties on same message will help republicans take senate back, americans for prosperity jenniffer sophano. >> if you didn't like the way that government was treating you as a citizen two years ago you must hate it now. 4 years of living under policies of barack obama have been devastating to americans, our families and our children's future, we have proof now, we're not talking about barack obama the man but the president and his policies could we are

talking on the issues we can win on this. liz: katherina? >> you know the message still resonates, we need to remind people, people did not support obamacare before they passed, now that it is passed. we do not want it. and it the democrat party who single handedly are issuing largest tax hikes on middle class then we'll see in our life time. liz: talk about the new rasmussen survey with 54% of likely voters favors the repeal of the health care reform bill, what do you make of that? >> the number who want it repealed is low, if you look at number who are not sure, and undecided, like us, that american for prosperity we educating on the issues. on the board of bureaucrats, deciding about what medicine you use. and when people learn more about it that number is going up and up, you have an overwhelming

number of the americans who hate this medica medical rah ratherr. liz: we have a det commission, called u.s. congress, but now "new york times," out over the week saying look congress has to stop behaving bik behave like ds with endless fighting, what do you think? >> we're sitting here 4 years into this administration, and we don't have a budget, so, we're spending, we're not calculating in we're reraising debt ceiling this is out of control, we have measures in place, we have a document that tells us what government is supposed to do it, we need to follow the laws we have. liz: you know, can mitt romney close the deal and say there are certain parts that people do

like, keeping kids on parent's you know insurance until age 26, stop knocking peep ou people out with preexisting conditions. >> you don't need 2000 pages of a law that rewrites relationship of citizen of u.s. and government to do, that i think that mitt romney summed it up best, this president has been there for 230ur years, and people looking at what he as done, what he has done with debt, and taxes and with health care law, so far we had nothing but bank policies of bankruptcy and failure, that is when people are thinking bthey are not talking about who they are as individuals, it about at policies,. liz: katrina, to jen's point we know that recovery has not been picture perfect. the government's policies have not been so state of the art, are you buying argument that it is president bush's fault when vice president biden has been

around since the nixon administration. >> ahead. >> no, i i don't think it is bush's fault, we have a bunch of elected officials who are not representing the people in their state, they are not ripping people in their district, but to jen's point, we have to look at moving forward, we have a system that works, it is called free market. that applies to everything, including health care. liz: you know, the idea that free market, i hear what you say, is that really the way to fix health care. democrats could say, wait that did not work go ahead. >> absolutely, the way to fix health care is through free market, look at 2700 page -- >> that is not their arg am. >> it did work before, we were a a free market medical community before obama, government oversaw too much this is about control not about choice.

i -- as a mother, wife, a woman who makes her own money, i want the say in what health care i get for my family and myself, women make 80% of health care decisions in their home. liz: i want to be clear for viewer. the government controls half of health caremarket through medicaid and medicare. >> it does. they give people the money as opposed to government keeping it that can be changed that is what paul ryan said, control is what government does now, choice is what we want. liz: coming up u.s. court slap heard around the world. >> last week supreme court reversed a century of law that i believe will open the flood floodgates for special interests, including foreign corporations to spend without limit in our election. >> the decision that president does not like but unions did not

like. so why is organized labor all of a sudden making an organized effort to embrace it? next, don't go away. overmany discounts to thine customers! safe driver, multi-car, paid in full -- a most fulsome bounty indeed, lord jamie. thou cometh and we thy savet what are you doing? we doth offer so many discounts, we have some to spare. oh, you have a of those homeowners' discounts? here we go. thank you. he took my shield, my lady. these are troubling times in the kinom. more discounts than we knoweth what to do with. now, that's progressive.

liz: welcome back, it is halftime report, this elect unions are going full throttle. members going door-to-door for the first time soliciting votes from nonunion members, this is something they were not allowed to do before. the u.s. supreme court decision citizens united changing that. that is the case, unions say unfairly lets corporation spend limitless cash on elections, unions embrace the part of decision that benefits them, but quick to blast part that does not. labor policy analyst vinny

bernuccio is not surprised. what do you make of that? >> you have to love this for all belly aching over citizens united, you who know is benefiting the most, it organized labor, they can use general treasury money to campaign for first time, and go door-to-door, talk to nonunion members, which they could not do before the supreme court decision. they spend $90 million, all this and they say citizen's united is bad, you talk about hypocrisy. liz: you say unions will 3w-69 thwill --benefit the host, how u know that.

>> i go from reports of 2010, has union biggest outside spend are of any group, bigger than any business or corporation. and more than a business more than a corporation, so, yeah, they are benefiting more than anybody else. liz: here is what we're hearing, reports indicate that ohio aflcio will sense out union members to knock on doors about 800,000 people. that is more than what we saw the 1.2 million people whose doors were knocked in 2008, how is this going to affect the elect in ohio. >> i think that romney campaign is ut gunned. -- out gunned, at expense of supreme court decision, aflcio said they will have over 400,000 people going door-to-door, the other campaign will have pretty challenged to keep up.

liz: all right, vinny thank you so much. he is a union expert with us, really appreciate it sir. >> hey, thanks for having me on. liz: sure, next up, driving at talladega could be easier than making headway in washington, d.c. did you see this wild nascar pile up over the weekend. more than two dozen cars involved. no serious injuries. that is amazing. >> meantime, our problems in washington d.c. keep piling up, lawmakers still astretch at the wheel, -- asleep at the wheel, that is in addition, don't go away.

i know theame of eight princesses. i'm an expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there.

liz: welcome back, we have 85 days left until the country faces a fiscal cliff. do you know where our congressman is? lawmakers are mia, and we're getting warnings from the imf, a

top official warning congress, look, you need to show progress so the world can stop worrying. former goldman sachs back vice chairman robert caplan, is waiting for this, what do you make? >> they are right to issue that warning. but we have a very lang road to deleverage. we have not even begun, imf is saying have you too get started. europe has already started. liz: honeywell, the head, said, look, everyone is nervous that is why we're not hiring we're worried about this fiscal cliff. and alcoa's said we could face a global recession is that worry valid? >> business leaders are worried about whether congress will do the right thing, but, i believe that markets and those business leaders think it will happen. liz: wait, think that -- >> it will get resolved, they do. now by the way, after this cliff, there will be several

more cliffs, this is a multiyear process, we're way over leverage. and you could debate why, two tax cuts two wars, we have done nothing to deleverage we have to get started, this first cliff, is just the first installment. i think of a mull year saga. liz: what do you make of this, one idea floated now in washington, ram through a negotiated deal that says we're not going to do anything about fiscal cliff, we'll let it happen, then pullback on that. and then allow bush tax rates to stay for everyone except those in upper bracket to give republicans cover to say look we did put in place a so-called tax rate that is lower, they will call it a tax cut, what do you make? >> i heard a lot of stories like that so republicans do not are to vote for a tax increase they could vote for a tax cut. liz: for lower brackets. >> but reality this is -- this

is kind of side show tactics, whether people want to -- revenues have to go up, hav we e to cut spending and maybe stimulus but they have to happen, and there is no getting around it they can hide behind whatever gimmick they want but we have to do all of the above. liz: what is the market reaction to that move, if they say we're going with as if call clifs -- s a bill that says raising taxes on upper bracket. >> if they did that it would be well telegraphed, i don't think they would do it in a subtle way. the market react that shows fiscal responsibility is a positive. liz: markets are not reacting. >> markets are benign about this the biggest danger for markets is a policy is make and chaos. >> do you think what we've seen -- we've seen an economy distorted by bubbles, like the

economy has been on platform shoes, and i feel like, we have -- market -- some analyst some people, have been drained of all common sense, like they are trying to keep the party going, the bubble party going. we have to say, that was not reality for two decades. liz: here is what -- european central bank and u.s. central bank are doing the same, easy money, reasons, they are buying time for fiscal policymakers to do their jobs, that means more revenues, and entitle am reform and spending cuts reason that ben bernard war bernanke is dois doing is to buy time. liz: it is not happening. >> but she hoping they will. liz: he has been pressuring them. >> they are out am time, i hope they will. >> looking like greece. >> not yet but we have to do your job. liz: in 10 years, robert caplan thank you. >> coming up, why ebay,

craigslist and my next guest could all be in jeopardy, the star of hard-core pawn could be creamed by the u.s. supreme court. >> back up, back up, blown blown, really, you don't think so? you don't think so. you don't disrespect my daughters in my [ bleep ] store, get the [ bleep ] out of here.

liz: welcome back, it's a law that be topple pawn shops and make, bay crumble, u.s. supreme court taking up a case that could end your right to resell youren ten own stuff, if the jus up hold an appellate court

ruling you would need permission to sell any product you own that was made outtide of the u.s., that including cars, dvds, and even iphones, hard-core pawn star is watching. >> all of my be would be affected, we're a pawn shop, we deal in used merchandise 90% of the time, i don't know how we could get over a hump like that. i would have to lay off employees. liz: here the deal, if you are reselling, not just iphones but art work, books, if it comes from china or japan or europe you have to get permission to resell it what would that entail? >> i could not imagine what it would entail, there is enough government regulations now, now that corporations can rule us, i don't know what affect it will have. what kind of affect on chariti charities, salvation army,

goodwill, so much flack from it, i don't know where it would end. liz: we have 200,000 books from overseas booksellers do you have a lot you of stuff? >> most of my stuff is from overseas my electronics, every diamond that i sell is from outside of the united states i don't know where this will stop, i don't know how my business, craigslist ebay, i don't know how anybody would cover come this. liz: who is talking about this? are and you other friends in pawn industry talking about this? anybody else you know? >> well, if you go to internet today everyone is talking about this everyone that sells, used merchandise, is talking about this this is one thing that we'll affect us, forever if this goes into affect. first of all who will regulate it? how will they know? are you going to fill out documents or fill out forms? who knows what that could

entail. i am really nervous, if this does get passed . >> let's play this out for viewers, say hypothetically it is passed. and somebody with a copy right on something you resell, are you afraid they could take you to court over it? >> they could if it is law in u.s., they could. if i sell a tv that made in japan, made in china, they -- and i don't pay the fees to them, who knows what can could happen to us, but i have to have an attorney, i on staff just waiting. >> could you be taken to courts overseas in china? >> if this geese into affect who knows? i am very concerned, very concerned about the charities, and about my customer, you know right now with the economy as bad as it is, people neat money, they going to -- people need money they go to pawn shops, and they go2net net to save money this will stop business. liz: how is your business doing?

>> my business is okay. pawn business is you know has been you know the year of 2008, when the economy went bad, people know they come to the pawn shop, they can get tremendous deals, but what will happen? people won't want to come to pawn shops, they going to a retailer and pay the same amount this will affect the, right now, business is good. in years to come, if this gets passed, i have no idea whack happen. liz: less gold from true tv's hard-core pawn. so good to be with you tonight thank you for your time. >> thank you so much. liz: next up, president touting his business friendly tax record, to why are more american companies bailing on the u.s., and setting sail for friendly year climates abroad? that is next, don't go away.

liz: welcome back, the white house still pushing for higher taxes that is pushing businesses out of the state, companies leaves the united states, and flocking to the u.k., saying that the british make it ease you're to do business, with me now. heidi harris issue said all this tax talk is running companies out of america. she is joined by columbia

business school professor eric shown berg schoan burg said that raising taxes is not so bad after all. >> what would thomas jefferson say, i thought we got away from these people, and now we're taking businesses back there. companies would rather go there that is terrible for america. liz: united kingdom is not switzerland, what do you make of that? >> well, you know, i'm a believer in american exceptionalism, america is a great place to live, and work, and a great place to do business. and so i don't think that we should let our tax policy be determined by what is going on in other countries, if businesses want to go to england it is a mistake on their part. liz: would you try to stop them with tax policies. >> i think that if -- look if a business isismly doing business

ism simply doing, in england, there is nothing we can do about that, but if they do business in u.s. they are subject to u.s. tax laws, the notion that what is happening in u.s. is driving bes overseas drives me as unrealistic. liz: are companies tacked twice here in u.s. when they bring foreign profits back home and they are tacked overseas. >> in a lot of cases, i don't understand your thinking eric, nobody who starts an american company wants too go to the u.k. to do business, they would rather stay here, but idea one job is leaving, america, because of our tax policy should concern every american because if i'm working for that company, when if i can't travel overseas and make that move, i will lose my job when that company goes over and hires people in u.k. that hurts me as a little guy. a big company, admit mitt as -y

1 said is comprised am peeve. liz: eric? >> uzbekistan lowers tax rates to zero, do you think that will @%use large numbers of american businesses to move there the problem is, look, you know, we need taxes to support central role that government serves, if we decide we're not changing taxes on anybody because of a fear this will cause business people to move overseas that would be terrible. liz: heidi, i hear what you say, delphi automotive for example thinking of putting anchor down in great britain, and ensco, a number of companies but the point is that capital moves at speed of a muse click we heard -- mouse click, do you think a company would move to uzbekistan if tax rates were zero? >> i don't know about uzbekestan, but eric believes in tacking people tintaxing team, y

goes, you are losing all that tax revenue, so not just one person's revenue you are losing you lose everyone's revenue that on a grand scale hurts america, it is hurts a lot of states like california and others, it is makes state lose more money, this is the same for us as a nation, we should to all we can to encourage everyone to come here, bring their ideas and bring the jobs to america. liz: eric? >> well, so, look, in addition to being academic, i am chairman of a business as well. so, you know, i know the issue of business for me the decision anywhere to invest and locate the business is driven by economic factors not tax issues, i don't disagree we should be concerned, i am saying we should not let our decisions be dictated by what other countriese

choose to do. liz: is know it true that investors pay higher corporate taxes, they pass it along to shareholder and investor or customer, a u.s. government that has not been great with fiscal stewardship, should they fix their finances first? >> well, i have a series of uunusual backgrounds, i agree that government does a lot of inefficient things so does wall street,. liz: wall street is not collecting taxes. >> they are. liz: that is -- >> everyone has to pay money to wall street tax. >> we're talking -- i hear that. but, point is, heidi, here is problem, american voter out there, the viewer people out there saying wait. you in washington dc. if the company pull sticks as

they have been doing pulling states, what will , incentivize people from the state or municipality. 1/2 to have the best business climate here in the united states to get the economy back on track otherwise they will be driven out there tax policy. but you think of economics i don't understand that. >> but my net after tax profit. taxes is a consideration but far more is this a good place to do business? is there sufficient demand? >>